Be the eye of the tornado
An interview with Marina Abramović
My conversation with Marina Abramović took place on February 18 – in a completely different world. A week later, war had broken out in Europe. I don’t know why, but as I write these lines and think about our Zoom meeting on that Friday evening – with the morning sun outside Marina Abramović’s window in her New York studio, and early evening darkness outside mine in the Latvian seaside village of Mazirbe – I experience a flashback of something that happened eight years ago. I am standing in Marina Abramović’s work titled The Scream (2013) in Oslo’s Ekebergparken, tentatively located where Edvard Munch once painted his legendary The Scream. Abramović’s work is composed of a frame that acquires its content/emotion/imprint when viewers/visitors experience and hear a scream – their own scream – thus encountering the deepest vibrations of their own being because no one can be changed by someone else’s experience. And it is only one’s own experience that stays with us – evolving, transforming, and making us more authentic and conscious human beings.
Eight years ago, I wanted to scream but my mind held my body back. And so I never rallied enough to challenge my limits. But I know that today, I would scream. And it would be a cry of catharsis that would shout out the complete spectrum of physical-emotional sensations that are impossible to verbalize and from which only a primal scream can liberate....
At the end of March in the Lithuanian city of Kaunas, the European Capital of Culture for 2022, a major Marina Abramović retrospective will open at the National Gallery. Titled The Memory of Being, the show provides a detailed presentation of the essential stages of Marina Abramović’s work since the 1960s. It will feature video documentations of her interviews and most famous works, as well as her best-known video installations. The exhibition is based on Abramović’s series The Cleaner, which began at the Moderna Museet in Stockholm in 2017. Marina Abramović herself is expected to be present during the first days of the show, which includes a lecture/performance in a stadium for an audience of 6,000. “You know, the older you get, people usually retire, but I just get crazy busy; but anyway, I’m fine with my life. I’m just going to work and then we’ll see what happens. You know, who knows?”, Marina tells me.
Abramović’s exhibition Portrait as Biography is also currently on view at Galeria Bernal Espacio in Madrid until March 19; it is her first solo show in Madrid in a decade. Abramović’s 100-minute opera project 7 Deaths of Maria Callas, which had its world premiere on April 11, 2020 at the Bayerische Staatsoper in Munich, will be presented this spring at the Deutsche Oper in Berlin on April 8 and 10, and at the Teatro San Carlo in Naples May 13–15.
Our conversation is about the power of art, the artist’s mission, the fragility of life, and therefore – the need to live each day that has been given to us in this physical body to its fullest; in a constant process of self-development, to become the best version of ourselves in the time we have been bestowed with. About ability and the great task of being present; about knowing ourselves, the limits of our body and mind, and our place on this planet. About us – a microdot in the Universe, and our mission on the periphery of the Milky Way and in the shared space of consciousness.
Looking at the situation in which we find ourselves now, do we as humans need healing or transformation? And is transformation, in some way, a form of healing?
You know, there is a very interesting Sufi wisdom quote that says, “the worst is the best,” and I think we have to learn from that. If we always think that everything is going easy and we take our lives for granted, when some really difficult situations come up, we are unprepared. And we don’t know how to react and how to actually behave. But this situation with COVID-19 right now, it was a kind of invisible enemy to us, and it came from nowhere. We were unprepared and we were not expecting it. And then the entire world shut down and people started dying, regardless of how rich they are, how poor they are, what kind of social group they come from, what kind of race, which continent – everybody was affected. It was a very bad situation. But we have to look with perspective to see that actually, when something like this happens, it is at the same time a teaching and also a transformation of the human into another state of consciousness. You come to understand how fragile life is, how it can come to an end at anytime, at any moment; we have to see what is our purpose on this planet, and how we can use our time, our one lifetime, to do the best. So, that’s what I think.
When something like this happens, it is at the same time a teaching and also a transformation of the human into another state of consciousness. You come to understand how fragile life is, how it can come to an end at anytime, at any moment; we have to see what is our purpose on this planet, and how we can use our time, our one lifetime, to do the best.
We all try, as much as possible, to avoid confrontation with pain, to push the pain into the deepest corner of ourselves. With your work, you are doing the direct opposite. Did you get through all of your Mayan veils – to the most well-concealed corners of yourself as well?
You know, people are afraid of pain, they are afraid of dying, they are afraid of suffering – these are the three basic fears that human beings have. Pain really is something that everybody tries to avoid, but I think when you avoid something you’re afraid of, you’re not solving the problem – you’re just escaping the problem. In my own work, in my own life, I don’t like pain, but in my work I actually stage the painful situation that I’m going through, and lose it in the front of the public. I see very openly how I deal with that. And if I can go through the pain and free myself from it on the other side, anyone else can do the same. I become the mirror for the public. I am giving them my own experience that they can use for their own life. Because on the other side of the pain is freedom from the fear of pain.
Marina Abramović, 7 Deaths of Maria Callas, 2019. Photo: Marco Anelli, Courtesy of the Marina Abramovic Archives
It’s interesting that the shaman you met in Brazil said that your purpose in coming to Earth is to help humans transcend pain. If this truly is your mission, have you been successful?
You know, when she told me that, it was something so obvious to me, because in a funny way, even though I was born in a family living in Belgrade, ever since I was a child I’ve never felt that I belong somewhere. I always think that my family was not a family that I chose – it was given to me for whatever reason. And all I ever wanted to do is leave the country and travel around the world, and see the entire Earth, the planet, as my work studio. When she told me that, it was like an inner voice saying: “Oh my God, this really makes sense.” Somehow it’s logical to me because I’ve always wanted to lift the human spirit. And that’s mostly been the purpose of my early work, since I was a child, till now – lifting the human spirit. It’s very easy to put the human spirit down. You can do it with just three words – you see somebody and you can make them miserable. But it’s such a big and important ritual to actually see the potential in every human being because we all have potential and we all have bad sides and good sides. But if you only see the bad side, you’re just enlarging something which actually is so sad and something that that person should deal with and resolve. But if you show them their virtues and their good parts, the person will bloom like a flower, like a tree, and you see how wonderfully happy they can be. So that’s really important and I wish to always see the good side. I always remember a very important thing about Matisse, the painter. During the Second World War, when Picasso was painting Guernica and everybody was in a hell of sorts – you know, painting atrocities and difficult motifs and war disasters – Matisse, during the entirety of the Second World War, painted flowers, only flowers. And if you look at this, I understand on such a deep spiritual level that actually, yes, we are in hell, so let’s look into the flowers, let’s lift our spirits! This is what I really feel, and this is what I wanted my work to be.
I’ve always wanted to lift the human spirit. And that’s mostly been the purpose of my early work, since I was a child, till now – lifting the human spirit.
Nowadays we speak a lot about the mind-body connection. You’ve mastered it perfectly. We know that our body has ancient wisdom – it could heal itself. The problem is always our minds. How would you characterize your relationship with your own mind and the tricks it makes?
You know, in the first period of my work in the early 70s, all I wanted was to push the physical limits of the body. Later on, when I had understood its physical limits, I was much more interested in the mind. The mind is one of the most difficult things to actually control. There is a wonderful Indian metaphor that uses a white elephant. A white elephant is an animal that can’t be controlled, so our mind is like a white elephant. The moment you think you’re controlling it, it escapes from you. You know, we think that we’re using 30% of our brains, but scientists these days think that we are using only 20%. This is one of the most ancient and complicated computers on the planet. But then, we forgot about the wisdom of the body itself, which I think is really as old as our Milky Way, as old as the black holes in the Universe. I even think that the mind came later – the body came first. It takes years and years and years of practice to really learn how to listen to your own body – what it is telling you to do – and not to your mind. Because the mind is tricky. The mind can constantly lead you in the wrong direction as well as invent things that don’t exist.
It takes years and years and years of practice to really learn how to listen to your own body – what it is telling you to do – and not to your mind. Because the mind is tricky. The mind can constantly lead you in the wrong direction as well as invent things that don’t exist.
You can really be completely delusional and live in a kind of “truth” that is actually false. But the physical, the body, is the wisdom that will absolutely never lie to you. And then we also have this enormous power of the body: healing, raising the body’s temperature, slowing the heartbeat, you know – intuition, telepathy, all of this stuff. And the only thing we have to do is develop this. The society in which we live now, Western society, is a technological society. And we are completely invalids because we rely on these stupid telephones, computers, all these devices – and we don’t rely on ourselves. You know, all technology was invented so that human beings could save more time for themselves. But we are afraid of time for ourselves because we don’t know what to do. We can’t confront ourselves with ourselves. One of the reasons I created “The Abramović Method” system of exercises was to understand, to see that we need to claim time – that we need to have at least one day in our life without a watch, without a telephone, without a computer. Just a silence with ourselves – to listen to what’s inside, and which we never have time for. I always believe that right now, in the 21st century, if we want to really stay as human beings with emotions, we have to go back to simplicity. Otherwise we will be bionic – a civilization with robotic consciousness.
I always believe that right now, in the 21st century, if we want to really stay as human beings with emotions, we have to go back to simplicity. Otherwise we will be bionic – a civilization with robotic consciousness.
Speaking about time and the notion of it, are you present for every second of your life? Have you mastered this?
You know, one could be very arrogant and egoistic and say – Yes, I know it all. But it’s not true. Every day, you just understand how much you don’t know because it is a vast universe out there. I really think I would never want to go back to when I was in my 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s. Now, in my 70s, I love the wisdom of my 70s. Because you kind of understand things that you can’t actually speed up – you need time and experience to get there. And right now, I feel like this is really the best time in my life. But at the same time, I also know how incredibly limited it is. This year I’m turning 76, so in four years I’ll be 80. Am I going to live to 90, to 103, like my grandmother? I have no idea. But every day could be the last one, and feeling that you actually live every day to its full potential is really rewarding. That’s what I actually must remember, that every day can be the last day. This is a way to cut the bullshit from your life, but it takes time to get there. And then I look at the young generation and say, Oh my god, what a waste. But at the same time, they have to go through the process. We can’t speed them up, you know – it’s not possible.
Now, in my 70s, I love the wisdom of my 70s. Because you kind of understand things that you can’t actually speed up – you need time and experience to get there.
Marina Abramović, 7 Deaths of Maria Callas, 2019. Photo: Marco Anelli, Courtesy of the Marina Abramovic Archives
You have experimented with various spiritual practices – what were you were searching for? And did you find what you were searching for?
I was looking for everything that could make me understand my body, my mind, as much as possible. And I looked into every possible culture. First, I started with the deserts, without any spiritual practice. I thought, Moses went to the desert, Muhammad went to the desert, Buddha went to the desert, so did Jesus. None of them came back as just a somebody, so there must be something in the desert. So I went to a lot of deserts because there is no information there – it’s just sand dunes and sky, the moon and the sun, and that’s it. So this was very important, this kind of isolation and being in solitude for a long period of time. Later on I became very interested in Tibetan culture, especially Tibetan Buddhism. Then Australian aborigines, and later on, I went to the shamans in Brazil. Then I went to Sri Lanka for other rituals, then to Indonesia, and then to see what the Japanese are doing. I went literally everywhere. I took all the elements that had helped me and created my own mix and called it “The Abramović Method.” I actually just issued a sets of cards called “The Abramović Method”; they’re playful, but at the same time, people could really be helped by any of these exercises because they’ve really helped me. I like to share with everybody.
Marina Abramović, 7 Deaths of Maria Callas, 2019. Photo: Marco Anelli, Courtesy of the Marina Abramovic Archives
You have participated in ayahuasca rituals, and you talk about them in your movie. What are the main lessons ayahuasca has taught you? And what is ayahuasca, in your opinion?
You know, I did not take any drugs before that – apart from smoking marijuana for my headaches, and which was given to me by my doctor. I never took mushrooms or LSD; I never took any of this because my main method is not eating, you know, to not eat for a long period of time. But with ayahuasca, I had read so much literature and saw how they are treating sicknesses, how Brazilian tribes are actually using ayahuasca because they have knowledge about which plants are medicinal and can cure diseases, all of this stuff. But when I did it, I think that the person who gave me the ayahuasca was irresponsible. Totally. When the ceremony started, he gave me the small dose, just like he did to everybody else, because it was a ritual. I took it and I didn’t see any effect at all. Everything looked just the same. Except that I saw my photographer, who had also taken ayahuasca with me (half of my film crew took it and half didn’t, so they were filming both effects) walking in front of me in the forest with a tripod on his back. I asked him: “What are you doing?”, and he said: “Oh, I’m taking photographs.” But I didn’t see any camera and I took it as a totally normal answer. What was actually happening is that he did not have a camera, and he and I both were already under the effect of the ayahuasca, but I wasn’t recognizing this. So I asked him: “Do you feel anything?” He said: “No, I don’t feel anything.” So we went to this shaman and he asked us: “You don’t feel anything? Good!”, and then he gave us a full cup of ayahuasca. You know, I had never experienced anything like that. I took it and ten minutes later it was like a bomb had exploded in my system. For seventeen hours I could not get over this thing – I wanted to go, I was screaming: “I want help, I want a doctor”. I was totally unprepared for that effect. It created such a great fear in my system that I had to take the next dose, which was a very mild dosage, in order to address this fear and get off it. I know that people have different experiences with ayahuasca. My experience was that I could not deal with it; I think it was like totally wrong. I had trauma from that experience because of that misdosing. You know, I was sick for seventeen hours, totally sick – it was terrible. And then I remembered that for me, not eating and very ascetic monastic treatments from the Middle Ages are something that I really can relate to. For the simple reason that every day your energy climbs higher and higher, and the next morning it’s not the effect of any kind of drug but one your own body is producing. To me, that’s the most natural way. So I stay with the concept of not eating.
Marina Abramović, 7 Deaths of Maria Callas, 2019. Photo: Marco Anelli, Courtesy of the Marina Abramovic Archives
Have you had moments in your life when you’ve experienced a complete oneness with everything around you, with the universe?
Yes. One thing I’ve experienced is oneness with the universe, but also these periods of synchronicity, which are the most incredible experiences that I’ve had. I have to tell you, the more difficult the performance, the more this kind of state awakens in me. And sometimes they come into my life totally unpredictably, and they can be very short. During the very restricted, very long-duration works with lots of restrictions, you come to a point in which you have a total feeling of harmony, luminosity, clarity. It is incredible happiness, and unconditional love for everything and everybody. And you can’t predict how long this state will stay – it comes and goes. The moments of synchronicity are incredible – when everything just comes into a kind of balance – and I think that to do that, you really have to work on yourself; it doesn’t come easy. It’s a result of lots of work and “cleaning” yourself. This is why my workshops are called “Cleaning the House.” We always clean our apartment – I am talking about This House [points to herself, the inside self] and This House you have to clean properly. And when This House is totally clean, then you have synchronicity.
During the very restricted, very long-duration works with lots of restrictions, you come to a point in which you have a total feeling of harmony, luminosity, clarity. It is incredible happiness, and unconditional love for everything and everybody.
Could art help us in this cleaning process?
You know, first of all, art is many things. It is what the person, the artist, actually wants to say with his/her art. Some art is only political, some is spiritual, or social, I don’t know. For me, art is so many layers of everything together. And the more layers, the more effect it has because every person can take the one layer they need at that time. But art definitely also has a healing element, the kind of divine beauty when you see something in a painting that creates in you this incredible tranquillity and happiness. It’s all possible and I think art can have this quality, but it is very rare; so much art just reflects reality as it is. Very few people think about things that are not about reality, about the conception of the world; it’s about, you know, our spiritual self, how we project it.
What I find interesting are these two artists who are totally different – one is Van Gogh and one is Rothko. And it is incredible how, for me, these two artists have a very strong emotional effect. Van Gogh really could see the particles of atomic substances. There is something so molecular about his work, the vibration of the colours. It’s like, aaahhh – it really fills you with this feeling. There was a very big show that put Van Gogh and Paul Gauguin together. And I looked at them both: Gauguin was a good painter, but Van Gogh was something different. There is something that he saw, and maybe the realization of what he was actually seeing – the molecular structure of our beings – was too much for him and he went mad. You know, sometimes the truth is too much. And Rothko, in another way – his somber paintings in which black is not black, violet is not violet... These are layers and layers of pain that work in a different balance on your nervous system, and the reaction is another set of emotions. I really think that for something to be good, it has to be emotional. Emotional is key to me. You know, I have this joke – I say if a movie doesn’t make you cry, the movie is not good. I need to cry.
I really think that for something to be good, it has to be emotional. Emotional is key to me.
Do you think that art can act as a kind of emotional stabilizer in critical situations, providing emotional healing in some way?
You know, it’s not about art – it’s the person who is doing it. The person who does art has to have that kind of realization, that balance as a human being, in order to create work that can affect others. Art is intermedial, but it’s important from whom it is coming – the person who is giving it, that soul. You know, it’s always a big statement to say that by changing yourself, you can change millions. It’s about art, who is the artist, who is giving that – that’s so important. It’s not art by itself, but it’s you... It can be any media – from poetry to painting, from sculpture to performance, but the person has to have already gone through this process of realization in order to give that kind of effect to others, and then through the media they have chosen.
So many things do not have a rational explanation. Including ideas – that is, where they come from. There is a hypothesis that consciousness informs itself through its creation – be it art, music, movies or books. That’s why certain movies, artworks and books appear at the exact time and place where we find ourselves as humans. Do you agree with this?
You know, it’s so interesting that actually, if you compare artists, spiritual leaders and scientists; what spiritual leaders and artists have in common is intuition. Scientists need proof of something that spiritual people and artists already know. Even if we all know it, it still doesn’t have any value if scientists haven’t got any proof. And this is ridiculous; this is how it is. Because we have this intuition, that feeling of prediction of something that will happen. There is a tribe in West Africa called the Dogon whose mythology includes the star Sirius and one of its satellites. No one knew that Sirius had any satellites before the invention of high-powered telescopes. Yet this tribe had a whole mythology about this star – a dance, rituals, prayers, everything. Only recently, with the invention of the telescope in the last century, did we realize that Sirius has satellites. That kind of knowledge – this intuitive knowledge which not everybody has but great artists and great spiritual masters do, they’re the ones to whom scientists are listening to now; it is a completely new kind of movement. And then the scientists know in which direction they should look for proof – our society is so technological that we’ll only believe something if scientists have proof. But the invisible world exists. And not just the invisible but all that which we call the irrational. A human being can’t invent anything in their brain that doesn’t already exist. Even the most rational could be irrational. Actually, everything exists – all this irrational knowledge is there.
If you compare artists, spiritual leaders and scientists; what spiritual leaders and artists have in common is intuition. Scientists need proof of something that spiritual people and artists already know.
Marina Abramovic. Film still from Body of Truth © Indi Film. 2019
Have you ever noticed or paid attention to how you think as an artist? Do you think in words or in forms, or maybe you think in motion?
No, for me it is a vision. You know, I don’t work in a studio because I don’t like to sit in the studio – I do life. Everything I do is life, and ideas come from life. But you know, they come as almost three-dimensional images: I see a picture and if this picture makes me afraid, as in, “Oh my God this is amazing, but I could never could do it,” then I will do it. But if I like it, if it’s just okay, I’ll dismiss it. It has to haunt me for many, many days and months. And then I know I have to do it. For me, it’s almost like a hologram image of the situation. For me, dreams are also very valuable because you have different types of dreams – dreams that repeat, dreams that are just a reflection of your day or a movie or book you’ve read are not important. But then, very rarely, there are predictive dreams after which things happen exactly as you dreamed it. Exactly! And some ideas have come out of these dreams.
Like lucid dreaming.
You know, when I was working with Ulay, we made this quite interesting experiment – we found a doctor who could hypnotize us. For three months we went to sessions three times a week. He alone, I alone, and just the tape recorder. We asked the doctor not to look through our past lives, but to only have us tell him, under hypnosis, about our new ideas. And we didn’t listen to any of the recordings from these sessions for three months. After these three months, we both listened to our recordings, and from the ideas that came out of that hypnotic state we created five performances. One is very well known, “Rest Energy” (1980), with the bow and arrow which we held between each other. It was such a good idea, and we got it out of a hypnotic state, not from sitting in the studio.
You already mentioned the old Sufi saying, “worst is the best.” Are we, as a civilization, now at our worst moment in this cycle of evolution? Are we on our way to being reborn – from caterpillar to butterfly?
You know, I really think there is no worst or best situations – we’re just living our lives, and it’s ups and downs and problems. I mean, when there was a plague in the 15th century, it lasted for 15 years and millions of people died. Now we are in the time of COVID, which has gone on for two years and maybe will continue for three more, but in the time of the universe, that’s nothing. I think our lives are repeating constantly, and we only have different names for them. There was the Civil War and the Second World War, and now there’s going to be a nuclear war. But we are killing each other, there are people who don’t have anything to eat, there is poverty, there are incredibly rich people who don’t give a shit, we are ruining the planet, the planet will probably destroy us, and then it will renew again. Everything is like that. You know, it’s neither the worst nor the best – we have to look at ourselves in perspective. We are a tiny little dot in the Universe. We are not in the middle of the Milky Way. We are actually in the periphery, a little blue planet that can be hit by an asteroid at any second. And we will all be gone. So if we see it that way – how vulnerable, how incredibly insignificant we are – we should really take our life as a miracle. Every single day is a miracle. Our body is an absolute replica of the Universe, and this is why I took to studying myself – by studying myself, I can understand everything else and everybody else.
You know, it’s neither the worst nor the best – we have to look at ourselves in perspective. We are a tiny little dot in the Universe. We are not in the middle of the Milky Way. We are actually in the periphery, a little blue planet that can be hit by an asteroid at any second. And we will all be gone.
You know, it’s not a bad period or the worst period – it just comes and goes, comes and goes. The cosmos is breathing, our planet is breathing, and that’s it. We are moving around our axes. And then we are moving around the sun, the sun is moving around the galaxy, the galaxy is rolling around something else. This is why when I did “Artist is Present”, I didn’t need to move. We are moving enough. I said, just be static in one point, be the eye of the tornado.
It is very difficult for us to be silent, to control our bodies. How can we learn to be silent and moreover, how can we learn how to look – including looking at art? Because if we want to use/feel its healing power, first we must find ways in which to be fully present and allow the art to guide us.
I think by doing my workshop [laughs]. Right now we have two groups in the mountains in Greece – one with 14 people and one with ten people, and we are also doing another five workshops at my institute where I teach The Abramović Method of “Cleaning the House”. And they’re really successful because when you arrive at the workshop, you have to give up your telephone, watch and computer for the entire week. Five days of no food, no talking, and being with yourself. The experience is a very good one to take with you afterwards, no matter your profession – teacher, factory worker, politician, artist – all of what you’ve experienced in the workshop you can use in your own life in the best possible way. You can make your career, or whatever you do, more meaningful. A good example is this German-American architect; he was the oldest in the group, 65, and in a very bad mood. Everyone was asking him why is he in such a bad mood? His wife had given him the workshop with with me as a birthday present, so he couldn’t not do it. But after the workshop, he was incredibly happy. We discovered that he’s actually a very important German architect who works with natural materials and thinks about the environment a lot. Now he says, “I want to help you, this is incredible, beneficial…” You know, sometimes doing the things you don’t like to do is the best thing for you to do – it makes you really step out of your safe space and into something else. This is what happened to him, and now he is a big promoter of the workshop.
Sometimes doing the things you don’t like to do is the best thing for you to do – it makes you really step out of your safe space and into something else.
Your show at the Royal Academy was postponed due to the pandemic. Is the title still going to be “After Life”?
Yes, it’s still called “After Life”. I am very interested in what will happen then.
***
A week after we spoke, the war in Ukraine broke out and in its first days, Serbian-born (former Yugoslavia) Marina Abramović made a video message of solidarity with the Ukrainian people.
Artist Marina Abramovic sends message of solidarity to Ukraine as Russia invades @ The Art Newspaper
P.S.
I was introduced to Marina Abramović by galerist Ursula Krinzinger, and I am very grateful to her for making this conversation possible. Ursula has been Marina’s gallerist in Austria since they were both in their twenties. As Marina tells me in conversation: “I’ve known Ursula since I was 24, so its a long, long relationship; this is really family already.”
When I ask Ursula to write a few words about Marina, she replies: “If I had to write about Marina, I would have a week of doing nothing else. We had so much contact, we discussed so much...,” and sends me the following lines: “I learned of the work Rhythm 10 by Marina Abramović in 1973, in Flash Art magazine (in the 70s, it was the only really important and active international contemporary magazine reporting about the most incredible contemporary art works). I was so extremely impressed by the documentation of this performance that I immediately contacted Marina, who still lived in Belgrade, and invited her to the exhibition we had planned at the Innsbruck gallery in 1975 – the first purely feminist exhibition with only international female artists. At this time, nobody believed that you could do an exhibition with only women artists. Marina answered immediately, as she is always very prompt and very precise, saying that she would agree to come and participate. For me, it was an incredible acceptance of my feminist project, one in which Valie Export, Natalie LL, Katharina Sieverding, and many more were going to participate. Since then, this exhibition and the performances it presented have become a very important historic monument of early feminism in art.”
“For this exhibition, Marina did an outstanding performance with the title Lips of Thomas. In this performance, as in many of her performances later on, Abramović pushes herself to her physical limits. The premiere of this performance was in 1975 in the Krinzinger Gallery in Innsbruck. It was then repeated in 1993, and most recently in 2005 at the Guggenheim Museum in New York for a period of seven hours. Abramović entered the stage naked, on which a table with a white tablecloth was set up. There was a chair in front of it. There was a honey jar, wine bottle, glass, spoon, and whip on the table. A photograph by the Swiss artist Thomas Lips, to whom this work was dedicated, hung on the wall. On the floor was a cross formed from blocks of ice with a heater hanging over it. Abramović first ate a kilo of honey. Then she drank a liter of wine. She broke the wine glass with her hand, which was starting to bleed. Now she drew a pentagram around the photograph hanging on the wall. She scratched the same motif with a razor blade onto her stomach while kneeling in front of the audience. Then she took the whip from the table and whipped herself. She then lay with her back on the cross made of blocks of ice so that the bleeding pentagram on her stomach was under the radiant heater. The performance should have come to an end after the heater had melted the ice. However, it was canceled about 30 minutes after the artist had laid down on the ice blocks in a crucifixion pose due to to the concerned heckling coming from concerned onlookers, which was also supported by the voice of Valie Export, who was in the audience. Abramović was carried away. When she repeated her performance in New York in 2005, it was not canceled. Abramović had taken precautions to prevent this. Some other elements were also changed, and a metronome was ticking.
“Marina stayed in Austria for a certain time; we travelled together to the 24-hour Nitsch performance, where she participated. Later we went together to the US, to our first US international fair where I showed her together with Hermann Nitsch and Günther Brus. The New York and Washington public was, on the one hand, shocked, but very much attracted to this very new attendee in contemporary art. Since that time we’ve worked together continuously, and I’m looking forward to Marina's big solo show in 2023.”
Title image: Marina Abramovic. Photo: Dusan Reljin / 2018
